Silicone Valley

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Silicone Valley
Group Information
Category:
Name:
Silicone Valley
Created:
Friday, 16 July 2010
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Description

A discussion group about the uses, techniques, complications, brands and anything else concerning silicone rubber.

Silicone rubber for puppet making has been around for quite a few years now and yet it's still new and intimidating to many stop motion puppet makers. There are beliefs about it being very expensive, difficult to use, sensitive to other materials and so on - and these are myths that need to be BUSTED! :)

The truth about silicone is that it is a very friendly to use material and the cost is very comparable to most other casting rubbers such as foam latex and urethane rubbers. There are many advantages to using silicone and a lot to tips and tricks to using it.

Please post your comments, questions, examples of your works, reviews of brands and anything else related to silicone rubber puppet and prop making here!

Announcements

Tuesday, 09 November 2010 by Ron Cole
A while back, I used an adhesive made specifically for Platsil Gel 10 and it worked great, it was called 'Sil-Poxy' from Polytek. But I quickly ran out of it because I borrowed a tube of it from the people I was working for on that specific job. I put about an ounce of it into an air-tight container but, the air that was in the container with it, cured it within a week - rendering it useless to me.

When I had a good sample of it and used it, it seemed suspiciously very much like another material I had used for basic home repair - silicone adhesive...

There are many types of silicone adhesive products on the market, but only a few fit the category I was looking for - the type that is clear and has a very strong solvent, in the methylene family. So I went out to my local store that sells basic home repair stuff and hunted through the racks of silicone caulking and found GE Silicone 1* for plumbing and bath.

I had some spare Platsil Gel 10 cured samples and applied it to one of them as a test patch. I glued a steel washer to it and I also smeared a patch of it alone on an area of my sample. I set it aside for several hours, allowing it to set up without any interference... IT WORKS!!!

Now don't get me wrong, for silicone there is no 'magic bullet' as far as adhesives go. You can always peel any substance cured against silicone off, but the question is... what bonds best? This stuff from GE bonds just as well and I suspect it is the same stuff as the 'Sil-Poxy' sold by Polytek.

So if you're in a bind for time and you've run out of silicone adhesive for your puppet, look to your local hardware shop for this stuff, cuz I think it's the same thing. (without the shipping costs and lag time waiting for the delivery)
Saturday, 17 July 2010 by Ron Cole

Discussions

Ouch, it makes sense when you say it but I probably wouldn't remember to add something to grip either.
Last replied by Marc Spess on Thursday, 11 August 2011
Ok, I followed your advice and it worked! I posted pictures in the photos section.
Last replied by Duane on Sunday, 09 January 2011
Nick, in regards to the silicone skin not sticking to a vertical surface very well when you paint it into the mold, have you ever tried mixing cabosil powder in with the silicone for the first few painted layers? I have never done this but am running into the same thing you are. It tends to pool at the bottom of the mold and ends up extremely thin near my seam-line. If anyone has experience mixing cabosil with a soft plat-cat silicone, I'd love to hear about it.
Last replied by Duane on Sunday, 09 January 2011
Last replied by Duane on Sunday, 09 January 2011
Last replied by Duane on Tuesday, 09 November 2010
Last replied by Ron Cole on Thursday, 22 July 2010
Rebecca Smith
Hey, had some good first results, so feel quite encouraged. Thanks x
Thursday, 25 November 2010 18:41
 
Rebecca Smith
Thank you Ron. I'm very nervous, but I'm going to live on the edge and give it a go!
Have been using your mold making tutorials on You Tube as well, so thank you for that too x
Thursday, 11 November 2010 09:48
 
Rebecca Smith
I use a plasticine called 'Newplast'. Not sure if it's one you've come across x
Ron ColeRon Cole on Thursday, 11 November 2010 09:31

I looked up the technical data sheet for Newplast and I see no sulfur content and it's listed as a non-toxic material so, you should be good to go! :)

Thursday, 11 November 2010 09:23
 
Rebecca Smith
Yes, I probably should have been a little more precise with my question down really! I am making a goblin creature that I would like to animate, and I've never tried silicone rubber before , so starting from a plasticine sculpture, an armature and a plaster molds, what should be my first step in creating a silicone rubber model? Do I need to pack out the armature or does it expand around it like foam? I really am a complete beginner and have only ever used silicone for molds. A recommended brand would be really helpful to.
Thanks x
Ron ColeRon Cole on Thursday, 11 November 2010 09:04

I use 'Platsil Gel 10' but many people use 'Dragon Skin' also. Dragon Skin is a bit less expensive but, I've heard that Platsil has a better tear strength.

Silicone is a dense solid rubber so, it doesn't 'expand' into the mold. But there is an expanding foam called 'Soma Foama' that's a silicone foam you can fill the puppet with if weight is a concern. Silicone puppets can be heavy because it's a solid rubber so, the foam is worth considering.

I use the both of them on my puppets, casting as skin in the mold and then filling it with the foam. Sometimes I apply the foam to the armature instead of pouring it into the mold because the foam rises really fast and it's hard to trust that you'll fill the mold properly when you're working that fast. (you also need to drill release vents into the mold if you cast the foam in it so it has somewhere to escape after completely filling the mold)

If you've already got your sculpture done, I'll need to ask what type of clay you used? That's because silicone will not cure properly against some materials. (like latex or molds made from clays containing sulfur) If your clay contains sulfur, you can still use the mold made from it but, it should be coated with a wax based mold release to insure there won't be a bad reaction.

I've never had that kind of reaction happen with my castings and I suspect that some of the warnings about bad reactions are somewhat exaggerated.

Also, what's your armature made of? Wire is easiest but, ball & socket is best - if you have a ball & socket armature however, just as with foam latex, you should wrap the joints in either food cling wrap or pipe tape to prevent them from getting filled with the silicone.

DuaneDuane on Thursday, 11 November 2010 09:24

Hey Ron, speaking of drilling air holes for Soma Foama, off the top of your head, where would you suggest drilling them for a humanoid puppet, gypsum plaster mold that was originally designed for foam latex? (FYI- haven't cast any foam latex in it yet so no issue there). I'm thinking fingers, head, feet. Do you drill them all in such a way so they are sandwiched between the two mold halves, or any through the actual body of the mold? (I wouldnt think so...) Do you think the extra cavities for overflow foam latex would be a problem for the expanding foam? The overflow cavities come fairly close to the puppet cavity at some points and end up leaving a relatively thin wall of gypsum between the puppet and the cavity.

Lots of questions I know, thank you in advance!

Duane

Thursday, 11 November 2010 08:40
 
Rebecca Smith
This is all great stuff. Have decided to try and make some money from my models and want to try and do some more with silicone, so any advice would be great. Where do people think I should begin when starting out with silicone?
Ron ColeRon Cole on Thursday, 11 November 2010 07:56

Where to start? Wow, that's a HUGE question! It all depends upon what you LIKE to do. All I can advise is that you let us know what you imagine or what interests you and we can help you get there. :)

Thursday, 11 November 2010 04:29
 
Mike Tharme
looking into casting silicone heads and hands for two of my human puppets for my film....needing a list of what I'm going to look for so I can add it to my budget list and have a idea of what my overall budgets going to be?
but I don't have access to an oven and never used silicone before so am I needing to mix a flesh colour to the silicone or can it be painted?
Ron ColeRon Cole on Thursday, 02 September 2010 16:43

You do both and you can use Createx airbrush acrylics as the tint. The base color of the silicone is a whitish milky translucent so you do need to tint it to a flesh color. Then to paint it you should use 'Psycho Paint' which is another silicone that you can thin down to either brush or airbrush.

There are tints specifically made for this called 'Silc Pig' tints and they ARE better for the job because they're more concentrated but they are quite expensive. I've been using the acrylics without any trouble and the price difference it pretty significant.

The instructions say that you shouldn't use more than 4% of the tints but, over time I've been adding it 'by eye' and I'm certain I've been adding more than that and I have not seen any negative effects.

Scott DeVierScott DeVier on Thursday, 02 September 2010 18:38

http://www.smooth-on.com/ try this site they have all kinds of info [ how to vidios and product descriptions] on silicones and other stuff to [ like tints ansd such ]. cheers have fun and good luck , scott.

Thursday, 02 September 2010 16:30
 
Nick Hilligoss
I've cast Platsil Gel-10 in Hydrostone plaster moulds, with a little soap brushed on as release agent - that seemed to work ok. But I'm still a beginner with silicone puppets.
Oh - looks like I wasn't supposed to use this comments box - but I can't find a Discussions line, or see how to join the group. Ron is the greatest! - does that make it all right? Oops, forgot to wipe my feet, looks like I've got sulphur based clay on my boots too, that'll get me chucked out for sure!
Ron ColeRon Cole on Saturday, 17 July 2010 20:49

HAAAAAAAA! That was great. (laughing hysterically) the discussions line is one of those gray bars above. Nick, you're a smart cookie, you'll figure it out. :)

Saturday, 17 July 2010 20:41
 
Gene
Gene,
This sounds almost too good to be true. Why would you cast anything in foam again?
Ron ColeRon Cole on Saturday, 17 July 2010 09:53

Unless you're talking about SILICONE FOAM that is. :) (yes there is such a thing now and I love it)

Saturday, 17 July 2010 09:35
 
Gene
Gene,
do you use Platsil Gel 10? I have read it is only a two part mix. can you tint or paint it?
Ron ColeRon Cole on Saturday, 17 July 2010 09:19

Yes, I use Platsil Gel 10, it's a two part mix but there is a 3rd part you can get called 'Smith's Deadener' which will make it softer and stretchier if you want or need that. But that mostly just used for prosthetic make-up appliances.

You can paint it with another silicone called 'Psycho Paint'. That's great stuff because it has a long cure time so you have a lot of time to paint and you can thin it down enough to airbrush it.

Platsil is a translucent white rubber if you don't tint it and both the Platsil and Psycho paint can be tinted with acrylic paints. There are special tints made just for silicone (Silc-Pig tints) and they are better than acrylic but MUCH more expensive.

Saturday, 17 July 2010 08:52
 
Gene
Gene,
so would you use ultacal 30 and basicly use the same process you would for building a foam mold, just no baking?
Ron ColeRon Cole on Saturday, 17 July 2010 08:42

Yep, Ultracal 30 is fine - I'm using it for a casting right now actually. You can spray it with 'Mann Ease Release 200' if you want the mold to have a longer life but, a release really isn't necessary. :)

Saturday, 17 July 2010 08:36